tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3443429211147580473.post194543847984144645..comments2024-03-15T04:47:50.803-07:00Comments on MISinformation: Gender and SwagMargohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14375776249793758895noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3443429211147580473.post-71995089958751717482012-10-28T22:45:36.670-07:002012-10-28T22:45:36.670-07:00some nice stuff in your article I really feel spee...some nice stuff in your article I really feel speechless, because it is quit pretty article. Beside this it is also a long After reading lasting article. Thanks for giving me such type of useful information.. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13545663593228383638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3443429211147580473.post-58937267860486681582012-10-25T11:22:32.193-07:002012-10-25T11:22:32.193-07:00If we're thinking about swag in terms of bring...If we're thinking about swag in terms of bringing people deeper into the field research like this might be of interest:<br /><br />Betz and Sekaquaptewa found that images of conventionally feminine women in science fields actually demotivated female middle school students and decreased their perceptions of their likelihood of success in science and math. Girls appeared to see these images and, instead of thinking “Oh, I can like makeup and clothes but still do science!”, they thought, not unreasonably, “Oh, great, so I have to be smart and still meet all the demands of conventional femininity, too?” Instead of inspiring girls, the images were threatening, making them feel less likely to succeed in science and math.<br /><br />And yes, I know complaining about swag is a totally first world problem. I was totally relieved that the bags weren't pink though.Jess Minkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12198112996030782293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3443429211147580473.post-2664687843768174332012-10-24T01:04:07.291-07:002012-10-24T01:04:07.291-07:00I think it is about giving everyone the choice of ...I think it is about giving everyone the choice of swag. For example, I am a woman but sometimes I may choose the male t-shirt, which is cut looser and will not encourage people I meet that day to stare at my chest. But if I feel assured or confident enough that they would not, I may also pick the women's t-shirt. <br /><br />This extends to other swag as well. It would be nice if organisers chose swag that they thought people might like and take with them, regardless of their gender. Yes, even at Grace Hopper, where the target audience is female.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17008964513846351043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3443429211147580473.post-89176597470033756522012-10-23T12:34:25.662-07:002012-10-23T12:34:25.662-07:00False choice.False choice.Brandon Van Everyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00167990197294723686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3443429211147580473.post-92073021113889519682012-10-23T12:29:44.045-07:002012-10-23T12:29:44.045-07:00I get your point, but I feel a need to pare your l...I get your point, but I feel a need to pare your list down. Big electronics, cars, and jets are surely things that engineers can appreciate, regardless of gender. You don't have to be interested in war, I get that. But if you're an engineer and don't like things with ENGINES in them, well...Brandon Van Everyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00167990197294723686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3443429211147580473.post-48015645878047897962012-10-23T11:23:14.122-07:002012-10-23T11:23:14.122-07:00I offered an extra shirt I received to a male coll...I offered an extra shirt I received to a male colleague. It was navy blue with androgynous (yet geeky) content from a world-renowned and loved organization in tech. But, it was a ladies tailored XL. He declined the offer immediately.Special Jakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09106140248336250103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3443429211147580473.post-73714046120211957242012-10-19T19:07:55.442-07:002012-10-19T19:07:55.442-07:00Regarding this statement in the opening post:
&qu...Regarding this statement in the opening post:<br /><br />"Outreach is designed to help those who see our field and think it isn't for them reconsider."<br /><br />Indeed. And the way to accomplish is through discussion and demonstration; mentoring and peer support; eliminating misconceptions and preconceived notions; and facilitating success. It is up to us as members of our field to make STEM appeal to girls and young women. Companies can put their logos on products that appeal to women until the cows come home and it is not going to make an ounce of difference with respect to bringing more women into our field or their job applicant pool. It might, however, have the opposite effect.<br /><br />I don't know about you, but I had never heard of Lab126 prior to the Swag Bag. But now "Lab126" == "The Rape Whistle Company" in my mind, and perhaps the minds of others. I just googled and learned that Lab126 is a division of Amazon and developed the Kindle. So instead of the whistle, they could have done, say, a tiny-kindle-shaped low-capacity usb drive on which they included a gift code for a free eBook. If you are at a tech-related conference either as member of this field or someone considering the field, my guess is that you like to read, like usb drives, and like free eBooks. This sort of swag is useful, inoffensive, gender independent, and it connects their brand name with who they are and what they do. That they instead gave us whistles is a thousand different kinds of marketing fail.<br /><br />Raytheon on the other hand, I had heard of. They should have provided key chains with little satellites. Space is awesome, miniature satellites are cute, and promoting brand recognition is good business. Raytheon has nothing to do with sewing, but based on the logo on the outside it would appear that "Raytheon Diversity" seems to think people not currently in their field would find a sewing kit handy. Not a politically savvy move IMHO. (And since when do you need a mirror to sew a button onto a shirt??)<br /><br />Dropbox lip balm because... nothing complicates your life quite like chapped lips? Lip balm is not offensive, but it's also not smart (or targeted) marketing. They could have instead given out trial pro accounts. I pay for a pro account. Once you get hooked on Dropbox you will wonder how on earth you ever lived without it.<br /><br />Reuters is guilty of "shrink it and pink it" -- not to mention lack of color coordination: Who has a car interior in which hot pink matches? ;) But jokes aside:<br /><br />The minute you start trying to appeal to the stereotyped image of a group, you are bound to offend those who feel they don't fit that stereotype. Things get worse when the group is a historically underrepresented population, which is most certainly the case in our field, because you are in effect poking a sore spot and everyone starts talking about it. And when you're at a conference "everyone" is there and the negative energy starts to feed off itself. And whether you care about offending people or not, or feel people are being silly/sensitive or not, it doesn't make a difference. The end result is that the discussions detract from the very purpose and goals of the event.<br /><br />All a long way of saying, I think the swag bag contents are a case of the road to hell being paved with good intentions, but a lack of sufficient consideration of the implications.<br /><br />FWIW.<br /><br />p.s. Props to Expedia for getting it right: Attractive, solid, neutral-color luggage tags provided at a conference by a company in the travel industry is brilliant. Thanks Expedia!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3443429211147580473.post-79802290647300765322012-10-19T16:38:41.730-07:002012-10-19T16:38:41.730-07:00I'm in process of setting up an all girls comp...I'm in process of setting up an all girls computing club, and we are certainly going to be spending considerable time in designing a girlie tech pack and program which will aim to 'delight'. I have no problem with 'girlie' stuff, what I do have a problem with is the negative associations that those 'girlie' things are subject to. It seems that just about any area that comes within the feminine realm acquires this negative status which is at the very least condescending. DalyLifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13487291717309852572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3443429211147580473.post-84339324442229126222012-10-19T15:46:13.789-07:002012-10-19T15:46:13.789-07:00Personally, I *would* (and do) order a men's t...Personally, I *would* (and do) order a men's t-shirt rather than a woman's style. I simply prefer the cut of men's T's. I will probably never wear the GHC shirt I got last year (did not attend this year), as it's just cut too 'clingy' for my taste. I would have preferred a man's cut. But the point is, there should be options for ALL. :-)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11641255360017407768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3443429211147580473.post-73772283170972605472012-10-19T14:26:03.924-07:002012-10-19T14:26:03.924-07:00I struggled with the swag myself. Despite being a ...I struggled with the swag myself. Despite being a woman who generally doesn't like "girlie" things, I appreciate things like the pink USB charger because it says, hey, we think you're technical enough to want this gadget but we're doing something to make it "special" instead of the same thing we put in every other conference bag. That said, I was surprised that there was, on the balance more girlie stuff than techie stuff (although most of the stuff was neutral). <br /><br />T-shirts on the other hand, I'm with the OP all the way! Well, almost all the way: I think (supposedly) women's polo/golf shirts are barely better than the men's ones. In fact, I'm more likely to wear a men's t-shirt than a women's polo/golf shirt. But back to t-shirts... I actually was most bothered by the companies that slapped a girlie logo on a men's shirt. The others you can chalk up to laziness and at least they had plenty of small sizes in stock (unlike at most conferences), but when you take the time to print something all girl-power-y but you put it on a men's t-shirt, that's just completely not getting it. I really liked the design of Google shirt with the skyline and conference info, but I will probably NEVER wear it, because it's a men's t-shirt. The Microsoft shirt from the same night? I've already worn it IN PUBLIC (and gotten compliments) despite the fact that I do not actually love Windows Phone. In the battle of fit vs content, fit wins every time for me.Nanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16942844916030513920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3443429211147580473.post-18708768956348679222012-10-19T14:00:15.264-07:002012-10-19T14:00:15.264-07:00Microsoft Research always gives out female t-shirt...Microsoft Research always gives out female t-shirts. I think VMware and some other companies also give out female t-shirts.Samanthahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06176300766838498626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3443429211147580473.post-50870058768225698602012-10-19T13:13:42.512-07:002012-10-19T13:13:42.512-07:00Margo, I agree with you. When I think back over m...Margo, I agree with you. When I think back over many years of swag, all of it from technical conferences, the items with the longest lifespan in our house are all gender neutral and non-tech related. I don't need the technologist in me emphasized, particularly. The items I have used the most, and therefore, accomplished the primary task of putting the company name in my eyesight the most are: large cloth bags, first aid kits, decks of cards and games, and drawstring backpacks.<br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09041745663615545384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3443429211147580473.post-30433722054745317332012-10-19T13:09:52.828-07:002012-10-19T13:09:52.828-07:00Brother, is this ever a first world problem. We go...Brother, is this ever a first world problem. We got to attend a conference dedicate to celebrating women in technology (a great field that I have been in for 33 years), and we complain about the free stuff in our bags.<br /><br />I was at a session when the woman in front of me at the mike complained about this exact thing. She was wearing bright pink shoes with nail polish and hair to match. It was almost too much to take. <br /><br />I love my pink USB car plug because I can find the thing. If I did not, I could find any number of 16-year old girls who would adore it. <br /><br />We have struggled our entire lives denying the existence of reality: girls tend to like girly things. We adore the girls who do not like girly things, too. The only thing that counts in CS is competency. <br /><br />Let's work on getting girls in K-12 excited about programming to solve real problems, and when we have done that, we can start complaining about pink gifts.Andriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03791182104239432037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3443429211147580473.post-57094745378207743932012-10-19T12:53:27.106-07:002012-10-19T12:53:27.106-07:00This year was my first GHC (I'm a student), an...This year was my first GHC (I'm a student), and I was actually pretty happy with the swag. EA Mirror? Cool. Lip balm? Just what I need. Sewing kit? Meh. Nail polish? I actually love getting my nails done. Quite a few companies still printed female-related slogans or symbols on their shirts, even if they were male sizes. <br /><br />I mean as a whole, I feel that wanting to dress girly is dependent on the female:male ratio across the company. I'v e worked at enough companies with high male:female (mostly startups with great culture) to become comfortable in embracing my style. I guess if you work at a place that is business or business casual, it's a little more difficult to do that.<br /><br />I wouldn't say I'm pure girly or pure techie - there are many males out there that aren't pure nerds either. By giving this female-themed swag, it's making women more comfortable in embracing their non-tech interests. <br /><br />So I'm surprised that people got offended by the female-themed swag. Perhaps it's different for those who have worked in the tech industry for many years.aimangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05173383564642642099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3443429211147580473.post-19571497023276946512012-10-19T12:25:24.418-07:002012-10-19T12:25:24.418-07:00Margo, I'm with you on this. I don't mind...Margo, I'm with you on this. I don't mind that what gets put into the swag bag is targeted towards the female me with items that are predominantly used by women. If I don't find them useful, then I do what normally do with any swag I get from conferences - give it away, donate it or toss. <br /><br />What I do find offensive is when my gender acknowledged by giving me a pink or purple version of what the guys get: Pink cup, notebook, flashlight, hammer or USB stick. Don't even bother.skydvgrlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00587259556508288810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3443429211147580473.post-46094567932365650462012-10-19T11:41:07.825-07:002012-10-19T11:41:07.825-07:00Great post. I think you bring up a lot of importan...Great post. I think you bring up a lot of important points about perception and gender and technology. The problem is that the technology field has an identity crisis. No longer is it acceptable to be a bunch of men programming in a basement. So when wonderful conferences happen, like GHC, that encourage diversity (specifically women) in computing, what we don't want to do is turn the women who are there off. <br /><br />The resounding message about the conference swag you mentioned is that it was offending. Yes, women in computing do paint their nails. Yes, women in a big inner city do need a whistle (although I think they would be better served by calling 911). Yes, women do need to be able to fix our clothes on the fly. And yes, women do need to fix nails. THe PROBLEM with this swag is that it emphasizes the wrong part of why women are at a conference. They emphasize the woman and not the technologist.<br /><br />For instance, I got a pink USB car plug in my bag. Amazing swag. This is because it emphasizes being a woman and in love with technology - rather than just one side or the other.<br /><br />I get it. I'm a woman. Please don't pigeon hole me as a woman alone -- which is what the offensive swag did. That is what I felt like saying as I looked at that stuff.<br /><br />Last, I think *any* time when a decent section of 3,600 women are offended by the swag, no matter how a particular person thinks about it, the recruiters should go back to the drawing board. Laurian Vegahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15181761377317291967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3443429211147580473.post-66315233498396012092012-10-19T10:53:14.451-07:002012-10-19T10:53:14.451-07:00Awesome -- I was also surprised that people were u...Awesome -- I was also surprised that people were upset by the sewing kit . I am always snagging hotel ones as well, but those are in cardboard boxes and get destroyed quickly. In a nice plastic case is so useful!Lesliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09949689346477812091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3443429211147580473.post-26176230680139331132012-10-19T10:28:51.199-07:002012-10-19T10:28:51.199-07:00Actually, USENIX has been giving attendees a choic...Actually, USENIX has been giving attendees a choice of T-shirt gender and size for years.Margohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14375776249793758895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3443429211147580473.post-57130783546581893582012-10-18T07:03:05.254-07:002012-10-18T07:03:05.254-07:00You should wave your USENIX Board president wand a...You should wave your USENIX Board president wand and get USENIX to offer women's t-shirts at its conferences. It's unfortunately they haven't yet wised up to that fact as well. <br /><br />You could also even get them to offer things like baby or kids clothing as well. Many of us don't need any more t-shirts, but they do come in handy for young 'uns. And they already have us pre-specify what we want at registration time, so they can order the correct #'s of each.Mike Freedmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13738553299681103099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3443429211147580473.post-52676597203475086092012-10-17T17:59:21.466-07:002012-10-17T17:59:21.466-07:00Can those of us with crummy nails get massages ins...Can those of us with crummy nails get massages instead?Margohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14375776249793758895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3443429211147580473.post-55820652610516835932012-10-17T15:30:13.601-07:002012-10-17T15:30:13.601-07:00Ha. Yes -- I'm still using the male-sized Tshi...Ha. Yes -- I'm still using the male-sized Tshirts to clean my floors! I get them without fail at all the CS conferences in my research area, twenty years and counting. <br /><br />But more seriously, I feel that one of the messages we give girls loud and clear in engineering is that they belong so long as they don't do anything obviously labelled as feminine -- the following things are not done by engineers: wear pink, wearing nail polish, caring about fashion, high heels, carrying a mirror in your purse, sewing things, worrying about walking in the dark.<br /><br />But its ok for engineers of both genders to do all the things previously labelled as masculine, including: wearing blue, being a fan of men's football and hockey (where grown men beat each other up), drinking beer (and getting drunk), taking a group to play lasertag or paintball (i.e. simulated war), buying big electronics for our offices (beats conserving energy), loving cars and fighter jets, wearing male-sized Tshirts and so on. Now we just relabel all of this as gender-neutral and then on average men have to do nothing at all to fit into the mold of an engineer.<br /><br />Point is, *none* of these things are about being a good engineer. And none of these things are about being logical or smart either. We've just made a habit of labelling feminine -- "Girlie"-- things as "insulting". I think that in itself is something wrong about us, and a way in which we turn away the vast majority of women and girls.<br /><br />I like that Grace Hopper makes a real effort to dispell that myth, and it worked for me by making me confront this issue. So Margo, while you wear your dresses, I plan to get outrageous nail art done on a regular basis :-). And just maybe I can take the faculty out for a manicure - which BTW is alot better for your health than drinking beer<br />.Radhika Nagpalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13719503604342075056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3443429211147580473.post-77852917936988222072012-10-17T11:15:17.419-07:002012-10-17T11:15:17.419-07:00Long ago, a fashionable female colleague of mine, ...Long ago, a fashionable female colleague of mine, upon seeing me wearing a polo shirt from DAC, commented, "you still wear yours? I use mine to clean the house."Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15942093661398909823noreply@blogger.com